Crina and Kirsten Get to Work

We have one single mission: Help women find ease, meaning and joy at work and in life. We use our experiences as business owners, entrepreneurs, mentors and inspirational leaders to explore topics that all working women care about: shitty bosses; smashing the patriarchy; balancing work and life; navigating change and getting what you want! We guarantee that you will be entertained and inspired... promise!
Episodes
Episodes



Friday Oct 20, 2023
Bitch or Best Friend? Female Rivalry at Work.
Friday Oct 20, 2023
Friday Oct 20, 2023
Get ready for us to take off the gloves and go at it with female rivalry in the workplace.
SHOW NOTES
Female rivalry is something that has been identified as keeping and holding women back from success in the workplace - and from equity, which is another one of those messages to us that our lack of equality in the workplace is our own fault - because we are catty and mean.
A large meta-study in the Journal of Organizational Behavior found the research on this topic is conflicted and concluded that the studies thus far on this issue have been inadequate to reach a real conclusion.
There appear to be two competing perspectives on this issue – one is that women compare, compete and undermine each other; while the other is that women support and cooperate with each other. What our hosts believe is that female rivalry as something in itself does not exist and rather when it exists it is the product of a biased and dysfunctional system.
Let’s start with bias. Women are expected to be communal and collaborative and supportive in the workplace. However, the workplace also expects us to compete for influence, promotions, and power. When woman act in opposite of the expectations around the “nice” behavior and engage in the competitive behavior, they are more harshly judged than their male counterparts. This is yet another situation where the same behavior is differently judged based on gender. As Sheryl Sandberg and Adam Grant write “[w]omen aren't any meaner to women than men are to one another. Women are just expected to be nicer. We stereotype men as aggressive and women as kind. When women violate these stereotypes, we judge them harshly."
What the research does say is the fewer opportunities there are for women, the more likely women are to report female rivalry. When there are fewer opportunities for women, there is often something wrong or dysfunctional about the system, which results in dysfunctional behavior from women. This is not to say queen bees do not exist – just like men – but it is to say women are more harshly judged for it and tit is more likely to occur in an environment when there are fewer opportunities for women.
More good reads:
Catty, bitchy, queen bee or sister? A review of competition among women in organizations from a paradoxical‐coopetition perspective - Kark - Journal of Organizational Behavior - Wiley Online Library
Gossip, Exclusion, Competition, and Spite: A Look Below the Glass Ceiling at Female-to-Female Communication Habits in the Workplace
Opinion | Sheryl Sandberg on the Myth of the Catty Woman - The New York Times
What everybody needs to know about female rivalry in the workplace - AB Media & Communication



Friday Oct 06, 2023
Meaningful Work: It Can Turn The Mundane Into The Magical
Friday Oct 06, 2023
Friday Oct 06, 2023
In this episode of Crina and Kirsten Get to Work our hosts reconsider a fundamental part of this podcast and our experiences at work – meaning. Meaning is the why of what we do, the significance of our work, the point, what makes what we do worthwhile – big stuff.
Research shows that meaningfulness is more important to us than any other aspect of our jobs — including pay and rewards, opportunities for promotion, and working conditions. When we experience our work as meaningful, we’re more engaged, committed, and satisfied. Meaningful Work | Michael F. Steger.
When we experience meaning at work, our performance it better, we are more loyal, our jobs become more dear to us to such an extent that we are willing to give up money, we are more engaged, our attendance is better, we are more likely to be promoted and we experience more well-being, 7 Surprising Benefits of Doing Meaningful Work.
Leaders have a significant role in creating meaning at work for those they lead. Leaders who are able to communicate the work’s greater impact, recognize and nurture potential, articulate values and act on those values with their own personal integrity and give employee’s some freedom and autonomy in their work are more like to have employees articulate their work is meaningful. 7 Surprising Benefits of Doing Meaningful Work.
As individual women at work, we can experience more meaning in our work by being more mindful and aware- of both ourselves and others. As we are more aware of our environment, we are better in our daily interactions and able to see and articulate what we need and be more aware of what our co-workers need. As we are more mindful and aware, we are more creative in our solutions to problems, and as we solve problems, we experience more meaning. What Makes Work Meaningful?
Meaning may be the most important element of workplace satisfaction. It can turn the mundane into the magical.



Friday Sep 22, 2023
Play! Yes, You Can (and Should) Be Amused at Work!
Friday Sep 22, 2023
Friday Sep 22, 2023
You need play, you are never too old for play, play is fun - and play at work makes work so much better. Bring on the joy!
What is play? It is an in the moment activity with the goal of amusement or fun. Our mammalian brains love play. The bigger the brain in an animal, the more play the animal seems to engage in. This is because play is how we learn and explore the world - and mammalian brains have made this activity feel good so that we are motivated to do it. In one study of play in bears, bears who played more were more likely to survive.
But what about play at work? Research has found evidence that play at work is linked with less fatigue, boredom, stress, and burnout in individual workers. Play is also positively associated with job satisfaction, sense of competence, and creativity.
Studies show that when a participant receives a task that is presented playfully, they are more involved and spend more time on the task. It also improves our emotional, attitudinal, cognitive being. Teams of workers can benefit from play via increased trust, bonding and social interaction, sense of solidarity, and a decreased sense of hierarchy.
Furthermore, findings suggest that play at work can benefit whole organizations by creating a friendlier work atmosphere, higher employee commitment to work, more flexible organization-wide decision making, and increased organizational creativity. WOW!
As we mature, we develop a style or mode in which we are most comfortable being playful. Dr. Stuart Brown, author and founder of the National Institute of Play, calls these styles of playfulness, “play personalities.” These are not based on scientific data, rather Dr. Brown discerned them from thousands of interviews and observations:
Connector, Joker, Kinesthete, Explorer, Competitor, Director, Collector, Artist/Creator, Storyteller, and Connector.
Which play personalities speak to you?
Read more at:
How to Have Fun at Work Science of People
Cultivating a sense of playfulness at work and in life
Forced Fun Sucks - So Why Do Organizations Keep Doing It?
How to Have Fun at Work
Everything You Wanted To Know About Play At Work (But Were Afraid To Ask)
Stuart Brown: Play is more than just fun | TED Talk



Friday Sep 08, 2023
The Four Hurdles Women Face at Work
Friday Sep 08, 2023
Friday Sep 08, 2023
On this episode of Crina and Kirsten Get to Work, our hosts reset the state of women at work after a restful and relaxing hiatus.
Joan Williams and her daughter Rachel Dempsey, wrote What Works for Women at Work. Joan has decades of experience as a law professor and she runs a project focused primarily on women at work called Work Life Law at Hastings Law School. Rachel is a journalist.
The authors have characterized womens’ experiences at work into four patterns:
Prove it Again stems from assumptions about how women will behave at work. This pattern looks like being penalized for mistakes that men make with little or no consequence; having to defend your decision or back it up with data, even if you are a seasoned professional; and the “stolen idea.”
The Tightrope stems for the precarious balance women are expected to strike between masculinity and femininity. This pattern looks like being “too much” or “not enough”, being either a bitch or a doormat; and being pressed into traditionally feminine roles, such as taking notes.
The Maternal Wall stems from the strong negative competence and commitment associations triggered by motherhood and prescriptive bias (mothers should be at home). Joan and Rachel say “the ideal worker is expected to be unreservedly devoted to work, while the ideal mother is expected to invest similar levels of devotion to her children. As a result motherhood is perceived as incompatible with high levels of work effort.” This pattern looks like not getting hired or promoted because of the assumptions others make about the obligations of motherhood.
The Tug of War stems from women working in what is a dysfunctional system. Rather than supporting each other, we can pit ourselves against one another, we can also buy into male norms. Sometimes our different strategies to deal with a dysfunctional system pit us against each other.
Joan and Rachel remind us of a few important premises when we consider these four patterns:
There is a stubborn gap at the top between men and women and their success at work
A lot of what we are told at work is wrong
Denial does not help - we cannot assume our excellence will save us from these experiences
Everyone's a little bit sexist
Know the rules, then break them - “there is no right way to be a woman”
The book is full of strategies to address the four patterns and a chapter on lessons learned from the research.
Joan’s Work LIfe Law institute has developed what they refer to as bias interrupters, which are assessments and training to address the bias which is the root of the four patterns. Check out Bias Interrupters on the Work Like Law website.
Joan and Rachel’s book is a comprehensive look at women’s experience at work. They remind us what we experience is real, they help us to clearly define that experience and they provide excellent strategies, tools, lessons and stories for us to best manage that experience.



Friday Aug 25, 2023
Managing Work, Life and Saying ”No”
Friday Aug 25, 2023
Friday Aug 25, 2023
A key to time management is learning how to say, “no.” Join us in this final rerun of the summer and revisit time management, how your values dictate your priorities, and when to say, “no”.



Friday Aug 11, 2023
Rest Is So Much More Than Sleep
Friday Aug 11, 2023
Friday Aug 11, 2023
We know you will enjoy the chance to revisit this important topic as part of our summer focus on rest, relaxation and vacations! As a reminder...Our minds and bodies need rest from things like mental stimulation, social encounters, creative endeavors and emotional outputs. Taking time to truly rest your mind, body and soul is the ultimate self care regiment and a direct line to ease, meaning and joy at work, and in life!
SHOW NOTES
Why do We Working Women Need Rest?
According to Saundra Dalton-Smith in The 7 Types of Rest that Every Person Needs, “[w]ithout attention to rest, we are creating a culture of high-achieving, high-producing, chronically tired and chronically burned-out individuals.” According to psych central, 70 percent of visits to the doctor are due to stress-related health issues. “Rest is the only way to engage the part of our nervous system that allows for relaxation.” It is literally vital for our physical and mental health.” The 7 types of rest that every person needs | (ted.com)
What Does the Data Say about the Effectiveness of Rest?
Researchers at Stanford did a series of experiments looking at the effects of walking on creativity, as measured by a test of divergent thinking—which asked people to come up with novel ways of using an everyday item, like a brick or a doorstop. The researchers compared participants’ performance under four conditions: while walking on a treadmill, while seated inside, while walking outside, or while being wheeled outside in a wheelchair. Their results showed that walking and being outside each separately led to better performance on the test. Moreover, in one experiment, the researchers showed that the benefits of walking on creativity did not fade immediately, but carried over into performance on future tests. ”https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_resting_more_can_boost_your_productivity
The company Basecamp added another day to the weekend and found productivity unchanged. Workers got done in 4 days what had taken 5. 8 Minute Read Why Restorative Rest Makes You More Productive And How To Achieve It
How Do We Achieve the Restorative Rest
Whether you schedule a walk with a friend (or by yourself), commit to get up from your desk once every hour to get a glass of water, meditate for 10 minutes before you start your day or book your solo vacation - get it on your schedule!
If you want to restore your creative energy - get inspired by listening to music, getting outside in nature, watching the sunset or enjoying beautiful art. If you want to restore your physical energy, sleep - of course, but also just sitting. If you find yourself irritable and unable to concentrate, you may have expended too much mental energy - which is classic Kirsten. Schedule a time to take a breath. Crina schedules lunch and commits to healthy, nutritious food and it is an anchor in her day and restorative in many ways. If you are on sensory overload - turn everything off and shut your eyes - just for 10 deep breaths - and avoid going home and turning the tv on - find some quiet. Emotional energy is complicated - are you holding others emotions or has life just sent you on an emotional roller-coaster? Identify what you need - maybe you need to authentically express your emotions in a safe place or to wrap a metaphorical quilt around your tender soul? Social rest is an obvious one for those of us who are introverts - we need time to ourselves, and so do those of us who are extroverts - we just tend to need less of it and sometimes not realize it. Spiritual rest is the energy to find deep meaning, a sense of purpose and belonging and love. When those things are missing from our lives, it may be time to up our spiritual energy quotient. It could be faith or religion, but Dalton-Smith suggests that you can cultivate a sense of purpose with music, uplifting and inspiring videos, focusing on the magical - such as the bloom of a flower or dew on a leaf - and then going back to these moments when you feel disconnected.
Check out Dalton-Smith’s article above - it is a rich trove of ideas and the inspiration for this show.



Friday Jul 28, 2023
Self-Care (still) Requires That You Crush the Patriarchy
Friday Jul 28, 2023
Friday Jul 28, 2023
This episode is #3 in our summer of rest, relaxation and (appropriately) encore episodes! We know you'll love this rerun and find inspiration in our exploration of this very important topic!
SHOW NOTES
Caring for yourself is not self-indulgent, it's essential to your well-being. Regardless of what you're told by the patriarchy, self-care is a way of life, not a product you can buy.Lets all remember the quote from poet and writer Audre Lord who writes, “Caring for myself is not self- indulgence. It is self preservation, and this is an act of political warfare.”
Crina and Kirsten talk about self-care from the Audre Lorde perspective. Not as a massage or a bottle of fancy bath bubbles, but as actions that put our needs before those of others to create practices that are restorative. Crina and Kirsten discuss their own restorative practices and how to create those so that you can bring your best self to all things, including your work.
GOOD READS
The history of self-care
The problem with self-care



Friday Jul 14, 2023
Burnout–it’s still a thing
Friday Jul 14, 2023
Friday Jul 14, 2023
Burnout is still an issue for so many of our listeners. In fact burnout is so pervasive that over seventy-five percent of the workforce is currently, or has previously experienced it. As a refresher, it feels like depletion, exhaustion, disconnection, negative emotions and reduced capacity...sound familiar? You’re not alone!
SHOW NOTES
Burnout is a real diagnosis - and defined as “chronic workplace stress that has not been successfully managed” by the World Health Organization. This relatively new diagnosis is defined as a “syndrome conceptualized as resulting from chronic workplace stress that has not been successfully managed. It is characterized by three dimensions: 1) feelings of energy depletion or exhaustion; 2) increased mental distance from one’s job, or feelings of negativism or cynicism related to one’s job; and 3) reduced professional efficacy. Burnout refers specifically to phenomena in the occupational context and should not be applied to describe experiences in other areas of life.”
Christina Maslach (creator of the Maslach Burnout Inventory) first identified the syndrome - and it came out of her work with healthcare workers and their families. Here are her inventory questions:
How often are you tired and lacking energy to go to work in the morning?
How often do you feel physically drained, like your batteries are dead?
How often is your thinking process sluggish or your concentration impaired?
How often do you feel emotionally detached from co-workers (or customers) and unable to be sensitive to their needs?
Does it sound like you? If you are like most of us - yes, at least some teimes.
How does this happen? When we carry too much for too long and cannot effectively process our emotions, our neurological system gets overloaded - and we are unable to effectively deal with this overload.
Who does this happen to? Well, all of us, but those of us that are anxious or have a low self esteem or poor boundaries are thought to be more likely to suffer burnout, according to a study of Spanish nurses. According to authors Rachel Montane and Erika Pryor, women of color also carry the emotional burden of discrimination, fear of retaliation - and of course much of the emotional labor of diversity in the workplace..
Employers contribute to burnout by unfair treatment, an unmanageable workload, unrealistic deadlines, poor communication and a lack of support.
Enter Drs. Emily and Amelia Nagoski, authors of Burnout, who just happen to be identical twins. They have concluded, based on their research, that the key to preventing burnout is to manage the emotions you are having so that we do not become emotionally exhausted. They encourage us to process the emotion - actually turn towards it, and feel it. Scary!! But we can do it.
Here are the twins’ suggestions to deal with, process and get on the other side of our emotions.
Engage in physical activity
Try breathing exercises
Make positive connections with people you love and care about (call someone or better yet go for a walk with a friend)
Laugh - a great big belly laugh
Hug for 20 seconds - the full slightly uncomfortable 20 seconds
Cry - they promise it will not go on forever
Be Creative - paint, sing, dance, write
The key is to send our body a signal that the danger is over, we are safe. And how do we know our emotions have been processed and we are “done?” The twin doctors promise your body will tell you.
Be aware of your depletion clues. Are you sleeping well and enough? Are you engaging in activities where you do not think of work? Are you taking breaks at work? Do you have work-life boundaries?
The solution to burnout is actually more than self-care. It is more about managing emotions.
While burnout is prevalent, there are things we can do to recognize our vulnerability, determine whether it is happening to us and work to relieve that chronic stress through the processing of emotions.
More good reads:
How to Recover From Burnout & Love Work Again According to Science
How to Eliminate Burnout and Retain Top Talent

Crina and Kirsten Get to Work
Crina and Kirsten dish on all things related to women and work. Through engaging conversations and witty banter, they will inspire you to seize your power and create meaningful, joyous, fun and rewarding work in their business podcast. While exploring motivational podcast topics such as authenticity, shitty bosses, friends and negotiation, Crina and Kirsten lift up women and show the patriarchy “the hand” and “the finger”.